Critics and audiences finally agree on a movie: Each faction hates Joker: Folie à Deux. The sequel to the 2019 Oscar-nominated blockbuster tanked at the box office in its debut weekend, and review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes shows critics and filmgoers in sync with troubling scores of 33% and 31%, respectively.
Another thing about Joker 2 that both journalists and moviegoers have pointed out: the idea that the film – particularly its shocking ending and implications of who the real Joker is – is a direct rebuke of the fans who embraced the first film and made it a $1 billion hit.
“‘Joker: Folie à Deux’s’ Fatal Flaw Is Turning the Fans Into the Villains of the Sequel,” screams Variety. “Fans Say ‘Joker 2’ Ending Was a Betrayal, but Was It Actually Its Finest Moment?,” THR opined. Mashable called Joker: Folie à Deux “(a) middle finger to fans of Lady Gaga, the DC movies, and musicals.” And here’s Rolling Stone for the kicker: “‘Joker: Folie à Deux’ Has a Message for Fans: Go F-ck Yourselves.” Likewise, audience backlash on social media and YouTube all echo the same refrain: Joker 2 hates Joker fans.
While that is a legitimate way for some viewers to read the film – even our critic Siddhant Adlakha said in his Joker: Folie à Deux review the movie “temporarily allows a commentary on fandom obsession to sneak its way into the picture” – it wasn’t the intent of Joker: Folie à Deux director Todd Phillips to appear to make fans of his previous Joker film the bad guys of his sequel.
I asked Phillips as much earlier this month at the film's press junket and here’s what he told me.
IGN: I'm watching the film and I am struck by the fact that this is somebody who is essentially a newfound celebrity dealing with a following and a fandom that they didn't necessarily think they'd ever get.
Todd Phillips: They [Arthur Fleck] didn't sign up for it. They didn't ask for it.
IGN: And so, then is the film in a way kind of a commentary on fan entitlement or even toxic fandom?
Phillips: Not so much that to be honest with you, but one of the things that we always thought about the first movie or one of the things I definitely said enough in defending the first movie when it needed to be defended because people said it's irresponsible, its use of violence. And I always saw it quite literally the opposite. I thought it was responsible because it was showing the actual real-world effects of violence. It wasn't glamorizing gun use in my mind. It was actually showing, "Oh my God, this is brutal." And I think the reality of it maybe is what turned people off, the people that were turned off.
One of the things we tried to continue with here is that same idea is to me — a really important scene in the movie is when he's cross-examining the little guy, Gary. Why? Because it's showing you the real-world effects of trauma on a person who witnessed it, right?
Even beyond just witnessing something horrible. What does that do to you, right? You know what I mean? It's two, three years later in the movie and Gary still says he can't sleep and he still wasn't able to go back to work. These effects of violence was something we really wanted to kind of — at least that scene addresses some part of it, but not so much toxic fandom honestly, but it's a good idea.
IGN: I'm just thinking: the idea of, look, the fans want Joker. They can't necessarily deal with Arthur. And I'm wondering, he's got fans that show up cosplaying as him, and they're basically like, "Give us Joker, give us the Clown Prince of Crime."
Phillips: That's right.
IGN: It reminds me of the fans. Like, "Give us Batman, give us the Clown Prince," all that sort of thing.
Phillips: I guess you're right.
IGN: And you guys are pushing back like, "No, no, I'm just Arthur."
Phillips: That's right. That is in the movie. But it was never about addressing toxic fandom, but it was about addressing this idea of what happens if this thing gets put upon you, like we were saying, just five minutes ago, but it's not actually what you are. And then, what happens in the worst case scenario, if you finally find love in your life or you think you do, but that person is in love with the character that you represent, not the person that you are.
I also asked Oscar winner Joaquin Phoenix about whether Joker: Folie à Deux is a commentary on fandom or fan entitlement, but he largely rejected anything that would inform audiences on how they should read this or any other film.
IGN: I don't know if you remember back in the early '80s, there was this guy, The Unknown Comic, and his whole shtick was he wore a grocery bag over his head. And he was on this show, Real People, and it was a phenomenon of The Unknown Comic. And I can't even remember any of his jokes, but the minute that guy took the bag off, and that was the big reveal, you never heard from him again. I'm wondering if there's any similarities there with Arthur. People just want the makeup, they want the suit.
Joaquin Phoenix: Of course, yeah. I think they wanted Joker, and I think he realizes that at some point. I think there's a moment where maybe he regrets the choices that he's made, maybe.
IGN: Do you think the movie or this particular story is a commentary on fandom or maybe fan entitlement? Because they're cosplaying basically as their favorite character out there. He's got all these fans that show up. And even DC fans are like, "Oh, give us the Clown Prince of Crime." And you guys are like, "He's just Arthur." There seems like there maybe is a –
Phoenix: I don't know about that. I really think there's probably several themes. I think each person can derive a different kind of meaning from them, and I think that's the value of it. I don't like it when people, the filmmakers, or the actors really primarily, are like, "This is the point we're trying to make. Pay attention. We're talking about you." That's not how I approached it, but I certainly think that's part of it. I don't know how you examine celebrity without thinking about that.
While it may not have been the intent of the creators of Joker: Folie à Deux to utterly piss off DC fans who loved the original 2019 movie, that is the narrative that has nevertheless surrounded the film and shows no signs of dissipating as the movie approaches its second weekend in release.
Perhaps in time Joker: Folie à Deux will come to be read differently by future viewers – maybe one day it will be reappraised by critics and viewers alike. Or maybe its pop cultural epitaph will remain what Rolling Stone said: “Fans: Go F-ck Yourselves.”
For more Joker 2 coverage, read up on why Todd Phillips opted to collaborate only with Warner Bros. and not DC Studios and why box office pundits are calling Joker 2’s opening weekend “an unmitigated disaster.”
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